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Dimples & Adoption
Dimples & Adoption

Episode 19 · 2 years ago

Ep 19: Follow up with Kitt

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome to dimples and adoption. It is not every day you get to hear an open adoption story from the perspective of a birth mother and her biological daughter. Temples and adoption tells a unique story through the eyes of two strong women who were determined to be in each other's lives. Not only will they uncover their emotional stories, but create a platform to share a variety of adoption stories from guest speakers. Welcome back to dimples and adoption. We have kit back on our show and this is going to be episode nineteen. WHOOOOOO. So I felt that share. I always cloy sire kits after your episode was so good and it's it was so detailed that Hannah and I never wanted to break up your story, but we had plenty of questions and that's why we wanted to have you back on to follow up and dive in to your story and just find outes some more stuff, if that's okay with you. Yeah, honor to be back. Yay, Hanny, you want me to start? You want to start, I'll have you start. But yeah, I got a ton of really amazing feedback from all my friends. I had a friend that I was like you have to listen to it, as you didn't get around to you, and so I just gave her the version of me telling her and she started crying just from that. My God. Oh No, maybe you shouldn't listen to it. But yeah, I got a lot of we got a lot of love on that episode, so I'm happy then you're back. Well, I had a good amount of members of my biological family, especially my father's side and Utah, listen to it and they all loved it. My search angel, Connie, listened to it as well and she said, well, you did warn me, it's a tear jerk. Or thank God I had clean x by me. And everybody loved it because they said that, you know, it had been a long time and there were bits and pieces of the story that were put together for them that maybe they didn't know or they didn't remember, and they were also able to come back and piece some timelines for me also that I kind of had forgotten. So that was really cool feedback and everybody really loved it and they just said a lot of wows and wows and we're so glad you found a what an incredible journey, and they all cried Um I don't believe I my little sister candace, has watched it yet, but she's, you know, still really healing from the loss of our mother and I had warned her that I really went into depth about that grief. But they were all so supportive and happy that I did it more and was people are looking forward to coming back and listening to the follow up. Oh good. I do feel like the power of sharing, you know, our stories and our journey. It can seem like to us it's so normal because it's our life, but it really can bring people together and connect us all. So I feel like that's such a beautiful thing. Yeah, and I do feel like people you know who I have told like little bits, like they knew I was adopted, they knew that it was impactful. It just it connected me to people that are just beautiful souls. Anyway, I'm a little bit deeper because they really got to hear and and I got the reflection that it was a really beautiful tribute to my birth family to as well. Yeah, it really me want to go and see I haven't seen mut been able to see my birth family on either side for a while now and with the pandemic it's it's just really made me miss them even and more and feeling like I really need to jump in my jeep and drive out. I quickly shared it a thought our old co workers. I'm like, you have to listen to you as share them. You have to listen the shares episode, and so I was sending them all the link and one of our coworkers, she's doesn't like to cry. I told her you will cry and she's like, durn you, Rachel. I hey crying. Well, too bad, Wilkes. Yes, and I heard back from...

...from all of them and they said very sweet things. So it would yay. You know, we ended on your sharing about your birth father. Did you want to share and you more of it before we go into some questions? I guess just that that was a significant piece to fill in. was making contact with him and, even though I did not get very much time, and I think this probably touches on some of the questions you have as well, that that was such a significant connection for me to find my birth father, hmm, and to really hear from him and also second hand from family. I'm hearing from him how much he loved knowing about me and that that really did fill in a lot of gaps for me and it was very, very healing for me to be granted with a very loving father who wanted me. I mean that was huge for me. So it was a piece that came after my initial search, but I really didn't realize just quite how healing and important that was until after I was able to meet him and to hear from him how much and how important I was. That's beautiful. Yeah, one of my questions that I thought about after being done with the first recording. Your mom said, you know, I was waiting until you wrote in your s that you would come find me, and then when you didn't, I thought, Oh, she just must not want to find me, or I think that's what she said or something like that, and I was like wait, how did she think you were supposed to find her, because it was no information provided at the hospital. But it's before I said, is very common. This is like this very common thought process with closed adoptions at one side of the others going to find each other with limit to information. Well, when she when I was adopted there, there really was not a push or a venue or even a way to put out information how to how to find each other later in life was never talked about and so it was actually discouraged. You know, you've given up this child and and that's one piece of, I think, my story that I didn't really share, that I had learned about is when my mother shared about her time in the hospital and when she had me. She said that it was common practice to drug the birth mother up quite significantly and so the memory of my birth was very faded and she had in and out memories about it. She said that she was just so heavily medicated and she remembers that I was born. She remembers asking if I was a boy or a girl and they said it's a girl, and she asked to hold me and they said no, it's better this way, you shouldn't hold her and they whisked me away and they medicated her and she said that she remembers waking up several days later just being so medicated, and then she she asked for me. She said how is she? Is She okay? And they told her she's very, very sick and that's all that they would tell her. And she was feeling so worried about me and wanting to know more information about me, because I had been like throwing up. I think I'd shared that, that they were overfeeding me and I was feeling to thrive and they just said she's very, very sick and they wouldn't tell her any other information about her. And this is part of my story that I kind of remembered after the fact too, is she told me when she went home she had worked with a lawyer that represented my birth mom and because she had to pay for my medical my medical bills, for the hospital bills and like the birth of me, and she had to go into the lawyer's office and she was making payments for that and she said that...

...when the lawyer stepped out of the room, she actually saw a first name and a phone number for my adoptive mom and she quickly wrote it down and she said that in my my adoptive mom had never told me this. She said that she called her. I know part of the story I never told you, guys. She called her because she was so, so frantically worried that I was okay, and she said that she remembers my adoptive mom answering the phone and she could hear me crying in the background, and I am positive that this absolutely freaked out my adoptive mom to the moon, just knowing who she is, and she said, is the baby okay? They told me she's very sick, and she kind of got a very kind of abrupt and probably rude response and she's fine and do not contact us again and hung up. And so she said that she was always worried about me, that I am wondered if I was okay, and so that was a very big like I felt so bad about that that she she was treated so horribly in the hospital. But you there was no hey, if you ever want to make contact, if you ever want to be Oh, been to be found. This is what information you can provide. What she had told my look sister is when you are over eighteen, I will do whatever it takes for you to find your sister if you want to find her, but we need to not pursue that until you're eighteen. And so my sister had just like turned like she was nineteen and a half at the time. And so my sister had actually just been starting to talk about it before I made contact, about remember, you're going to help me, I still want to find her. But they had really no solid venue or information or know how to even do that. Do you think your mom thought they your adoptive mom was just peration and so you always had the information some day find her? I think she felt like if I wanted to find her, that I would figure out how to do that. Okay, yeah, I believe. I think it was such an unknown and they're just really wasn't I mean, and even when I wanted to find there was no clear way to do that. Hum. I want you to clear by who was paying for the medical bills? My Um, my birth mother. Okay, so let me clarify that. So my the adoptive family, I. Adoptive Mom, was paying for the medical bills. Okay, I got that wrong, so you might want to clarify that. You said that in the yeah, yeah, okay, so I was just trying to figure out how your mom saw the name. Yet so they're yeah, so there was something on like a bill. Oh, got it. Okay. Yeah, I feel like there is this false understanding that people can just find each other. Well, now it's much easier than anyway. But yeah, there's just that unknown. One side feels like, Oh, I'm sure they know about me and can find me. The other one feels the same way, and so everybody's just waiting. Right. And when I got the non identifying information, I was able to fill out a form for if a sibling was looking for you. I guess candid could have, but they never, they never got that far. Like it just wasn't clear caught. There was no website saying hey, this is what you do if you want to find and at that time it really just was not encouraged at all. MMM, I remember reading about women being so drugged. That was just like you said, come and practice. Yes, and she was not allowed to hold me and she wanted to hold me and and she said they...

...were just not very kind to her at all and especially when she was asking is she okay? She okay, all they would say is she's very sick. Yeah, I don't know how I would have felt having Hannah leave and then no, then telling me she was sick and not ever being being able to connect again. Right now we go. Yeah, and my birth mom said, like you know, she had made her decision. She she was not looking to get me back. She just wanted that piece of mine that I was okay because she felt love for me and she felt care for me. And I mean really, the whole reason she placed me for adoption was out of love and knowing that she would not be able to give me the life that she wanted for me. HMM, well, that kind of carries into the next question. Sorry, Hannah, you okay if I keep going? Yeah, I just like if people wonder why there's people here that are angry. Yeah, that's why. Actually, it's just and we're doing this on mother's Day and it just is infuriating that women were treated that way. And but I'm glad we can talk about it because of no one ever talked about it. Would never change, right. It's almost empowering that the three of us are sitting here on Mother's Day. Yeah, it's amazing. It is. So my other question is has to do this rejection and my I'm wondering, did you, I think I wrote this too, did you ever have feelings of a rejection? Do you still have any feelings of rejection just in general or I guess my questions all over the place, but you know, did it? Did you when you were younger than as you grow grow older, you had a different understanding. Just in can you talk about the rejection I personally and I don't know exactly why, but I personally never had this deep, intuitive baseline feeling that I was rejected, and I know a lot of people have those feelings. I'm not sure why. I definitely definitely felt more sadness and grief and lost about being separated from my birth mother versus being rejected, and I don't know if if there was something that was told to me as a very little person that calm that or if it was just my sense of I've always been this very strong, intuitive spirit. But I just never ever felt like I felt like it was wrong that I was taken from her and separated from her, even though that was a choice that they made, and that there was no kind of information or closure or healing for so many, many, many, many years. I always felt like she must feel sad that she doesn't know I have blond hair and pigtails. I feel sad that she doesn't know I have blue eyes, like she must have. I felt those kind of feelings and thoughts versus I was thrown away. So you had mooser well as I do, think, because I know so much of it is your situation, in your personal experience. That in like I don't know if you can imagine this, but if it was in a sense where your adoptive parents were open and like wanted to bring her into your life and your birth mom was having a hard time with that, do you think you would feel differently than or because I feel like they already took the choice away from you, so you to have no idea if she wanted you in your life or not. It said like Nope, that's not going to happen. I think that was more of my strong or my negative feelings, was that there wasn't a choice, and I feel like there really wasn't given a choice. Like that is I mean, in that state and in that...

...time, that was the expectation that you'd you sign the papers and you are done and you you have no rights to having anything be open, and I don't think, I don't feel like on the adoption side of it, that there would have been any comfort or okay with their having been anything open, because my adoption side was your mind and they're done, and so there was no even opportunity for that. So I yeah, I felt like more like I absolutely a hundred percent believe in open adoptions and in that communication and but knowledge and those questions being available and open. Now I do know families that have had a very, very healthy response to their adoptive children, but it's closed only because it's not available. Like I have a very good friend who adopted a child as an infant from an orphanage in India. They would be very happy and joyful if they could ever help their now like nineteen year old, twenty one year old child reunite, but it's it's culturally it would could be very damaging. There's a lot of shame and having a child out of wedlock in India, and so it would also be a very hard thing to find that family. HMM. And so that, even presented as this is only closed because this isn't available to us, is healthier than this is just not going to happen right, because we want that for you, because there's a possessiveness about our claim on you and and insecurity about we can't share you. And that's, I think, where some of my like upset and bitterness and shame kind of came from. Is Know, that feels wrong to me to be closed, but it wasn't a choice for any of us. Yeah, yeah, yours is more like the process versus your birth family. You're more upset with how it was done. Yeah, and that was common. HMM. That was really common and and so traumatizing really on so many levels to all involved. Yeah, this, do you want to go into? The reason that I was asking is because I just keep hearing so an earlier episode we had an adoptee and he was from a closed adoption. Typically you'd think it was we'd be more from the closed adoptions, that they would feel more rejection because there was no connection. And he said, and we're friends. And he's like, you know, Rachel, this is the ultimate rejection. And he probably he's like sorry, and I was like no, you're being honest as an adoptee. And then on they keep using the term in the community secondary rejection, as in you get reunited and then the bird family doesn't want movement and so but that signifies that there was a first rejection and as a bird's parent, I have to admit that I'm struggling with it a little bit to define it, and so I just it's like asking adoptees were how and that's what I think a big fear that my besides being possessed of in your mind and fear of losing me. I think that that was communicated to me from my adoptive mom, that she was afraid that I would be rejected again and hurt by that. But I never felt rejected. The first time I felt separated and that was of that, honestly, would have been, even though I prepared myself for it. That would have been very, very hard and difficult had I been rejected when I made reunification, when I found my birth family. If I had been rejected, it would have been...

...horribly painful, but it also, in my mind, would have been way worse to never have known and filled in the gaps like it still would have brought me closure and peace, and I just feel so incredibly, incredibly blessed that I wasn't rejected. Yeah, I've heard that too. I think I said that to you, Hannah. There's an author out there that said it's even. It's okay to even. It's better to still find yea night even if it doesn't go the way you've planned, and never to know absolutely because that that gap is just there, it's open, there's never a chance to fill it without knowing. And I also had that very, very huge fear that one of my parents would have been passed, would have been gone, and they never had the opportunity to say what I wanted to say. And and that was something I was prepared for when I made contact, that I understand this may not go anywhere and that you may not want to have any communication with me. And and on many levels that was okay. Hey, I got already made peace with that as a possibility and was prepared for that. And so for that to not have happened and to really I am very blessed that I had the ultimate experience when I made contact on both sides, and that is just a blessed thing I will never take for granted. Yeah, Rachel, I've experienced all of those things, like I'm like, I've experienced the where I didn't feel rejected by you because it was open from day one. So I never felt rejected, but I did feel rejected by my birth father because he could have contacted me and didn't, and then I reunited with him and then I did get rejected a second time, but I still feel like it was worth it because I got a ton of closure and I got to have those conversations in those connections so it's like who. It was kind of Nice to hear you say that, kit, because sometimes I feel like I'm crazy where it's, you know, why do you certain things hurt so much? You know, and so it's nice to hear yeah, you say like Oh, that would have really hurt me, but it would have been worth it. Like yeah, you know, and I've been through that. So it's like right, I'm not just in my head. It's normal that the stuff hurts. And Yeah, right, right and night, and that, you know, when you talk about like that deep rejection or that feeling, is really that separation. It hurts on all levels, on all sides. Yeah, especially once you can, like now that I'm adult and I can see things full circle and understand and I relate to you, where like I feel like I'm very intuitive and I'm an empath. I have so much like love and space for everyone in my triad, because I can see the loss, you know, that everyone has gone through and why they are responding or acting the way they are, because I feel like early on I started my healing journey and not everyone's there yet, ready to even process or touch these emotions, because they're intense and they're scary and pent. Yes, and I and I do encounter a lot of adoptees that have a lot of resentfulness, in anger and and feelings that I don't necessarily have. But everybody has their own journey and their own right to those feelings and there is no wrong story, there is no wrong feeling or response and everybody deserves to feel heard and it's okay. And so if people have feelings that are listening that are different than mine, I hear you. I hear you and you're okay and almose feelings, embrace them. They are yours, they are your heart and they are your soul and they are not wrong and I feel you and...

I love you. Some people cry right there. I know get emotional an episode, seventeen people. We're moving on from that right. I have to say that what I love about when we do share our stories there are moments that just just happened for me just in talking now. So I was telling you how I was hung up on this word of rejection and can't when you change it to just the loss of separation, the word, the word alone of changing it from rejection the separation just put me. I just calmed. It just put me at ease and made me feel so much better, and I feel like that's why we're doing what we're doing, because you're healing process is going to change constantly and when you put yourself out there and you're educating yourself and you're listening to other people's stories, you're not even going to know when it's going to happen like it just happened for me and it feels amazing. I'm going to walk away going yes, that is I understand that now and it feels it feels amazing, and so I'm hoping that those little tiny things can happen for Pete other people like it happens for us. Refer to today for me right and Hannah, I love that you had that connection with your birth father and you had really good moments with him. And who's to say that? The healing process is just still happening, you know. Oh yeah, that's why I don't really talk about it on here because it's so fresh and you know firstand how much you know I'm processing and stuff. So I feel like it's a big part of my journey and I want to share that on here in our respectable manner, because I know so many people can connect with that and not feel so alone. But yeah, it's hard. Yeah, and from my perspective, from a birth parents perspective, when you hear an adoptee say they are feeling rejected, that doesn't have to be this. You know, I tend to get defensive, which I'm learning trying not to, because I'm trying to embrace how the other person feels and I think that's common for a birth parent to get defensive. But it's again, we're just trying to communicate or feelings and that's how you work through them and you grow together. So yeah, yeah, okay, our conversation so good. Let's talk about how you your story is unbelievable and there could be a lot of hurt and anger and you have developed into this. Maybe you probably always were, but you're just so high spirited and loving and inviting amazing to be around. Talk about how you worked through all of this. Well, I think I view healing as a lifelong journey. For sure, there isn't this I'm healed and I'm done now, and it really is and continues to be. The way that I live is I'm always delving into self growth and I have a lot more growth to do, and this started as a very, very young person. I was I was very intuitive little being and very flighty and out there and fairy life. I'm open. I think that my creativity, my imagination, my spirit, my energy, my connection to animals and the earth and nature, my healing started from day one and even growing up within very traumatic and sometimes unthinkable situations, I constantly was bringing myself back to what I felt was right connection to a spirit, connection to a higher power. Even though I really grew up with no teachings of that, I was always searching for it, striving for it, looking for it, embracing it in a lot of unique and creative ways, and I continue to do that.

Definitely had traditional therapy as well and that was, you know, a significant thing and a part of a help that I got, but I was all so I just found a lot of really out of the boxing creative ways to express my feelings and my emotions. I delved into theater and dance as a child and that really started my awareness and continuation of how my my physical body, is a venue and a way to a vessel to access healing energy, and I became interested and practicing in Yoga as a pretty young person. I mean I was in my s when I went from ballet to like Yoga, and actually I'm going to graduate next weekend as two hundred our certified yoga teacher. Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited and Yoga has been huge, hugely healing for me, giving me and I want to really come to the other side of teaching that and teaching that as a healing. You know, I went to when I first went to college, I thought that I was going to be an elementary school teacher because I wanted to do something with children. And I got into that and I'm like, I do not want to teach kids about math and spelling, oh my God no, but as seem drawn to working with kids, and so I did an internship at a summer camp and I just found my calling and I changed my major disocial work, and then actually went back and got my masters and school counseling and in community therapy and all of the work that I have done with lost little souls and lambs and and out there. I embraced my inner Fu with these oppositional kids and connected with them and I've worked with very damaged and the most difficult of difficult, suffering children. Since I was twenty one years old, I have worked with these kids and now I'm, you know, in my s. So that has always been something that I have healed right alongside empowering kids to find their voice, to honor who they are, just to know that when they're healing it's not always pretty, it's not always by the book. It's loud, it's flavorful, colorful, out of the box crazy, but being able to empower kids as much as I have has been so healing for me and will always be healing for me. Yeah, my food animals, I take in, I mean I do. Yeah, I just find really, really my work is my spirit work as well, and so I have found venues to continue my work, my own work, and so I lead a healing life and I'm going to do that until I cannot breathe anymore. I feel like I'm a mini version of you rich, like you're gonna Love Kid, and I was like now I get it. I'm the same way. I don't really go that much into it on the podcast because I've noticed people it's like I really need to just speak my truth and get over it. But not everyone embraces like energy work and my husband's a Reiki healer and we do a lot of like we just really believe in healing with energy and like stones and Chakras and all that stuff, and we dive into it and we love learning about it and we're cessed with our dogs and riches much you love your dogs. And I was like get that, and I'm in the same way where I was absolutely I grew up Catholic, but I was exploring spirituality and every suck and I could get, and then I took spiritual ecology and college and I was like it was the best class I've ever taken and we were learning about all religions and we were journaling outside and doing meditation walks and I was like, okay, the earth is my guide, like this thing is beautiful and you know, I'm going to dive into that. And that's where I feel like I've always know, known he healing and wanting to heal...

...others is something I've wanted to do my whole life, but not really sure how I'm going to do that yet, and so I love that like you have been able to do that for children. That is super cool and they are probably like I just know that they are blessed that you touched all their lives, because to hear that you're allowed to heal in your own flavorful way like that's amazing, right or wrong way to heal. So I think that a hugely incredible honor to share that space with with the people, the children that I work with, the people that I work with, and it's a huge honor and it's a very sacred space. It is a blessing to sit in that space with them. That was a defining moment in my life when I worked with you. I was quite a long time ago, but yeah, exactly how you're explaining it. They helped me. We were helping each other and to see children at such a vulnerable stage of in their lives was it's I can't really find the words for it, but you just you saw them so differently. You know, they would come to us in such distress and nobody understanding them and so much anger, and then when we would get to develop this relationship with them and trust with them, you saw them so differently than everybody else was seeing them and you just want to embrace them and help them so desperately. But yeah, that those those years of working with those the struggling youth, change my life for sure forever. Yeah, and not that I work with kids to heal myself. It's a natural byproduct. Yeah, yeah, we are. I definitely work with them for them, but it is. It is healing. You can't help somebody or walk with somebody in their healing journey and not have your own heart healed alongside of them. It just happens. Yeah, you just you take it what you take aways different life perspectives. Yeah, so I can relate and understand other people now because I had those experiences. Yes, right, if that makes any sense. Yes, yeah, right, something that so kit you and I work with a lot of children that were raised in biological families that we're not doing very well. So sometimes it's hard for me. That's why I like to battle out this biological versus nurture, versus nature type thing, and I don't know, sometimes it's like, I guess I don't even know where're going with this. I feel like I just want people to know that you can just be loved versus it has to be biological. I don't know, let's scratch Ale that. I don't know where I was going with it. But I know what you're trying to say, because we struggle with it a lot, with like that initial separation from biological family, like that trauma, and then having like, is it enough to have love outside of your biological family to live a fulfilled and happy life? Because are definitely people out there that feel like it's not, and I feel like that separation was the worst thing that could ever happen to them and that they're they're damaged and move word and we feel like that's a strong, strong feeling and we try to look at everything on all sides. And so you know, what's really going on is, is it possible to be separated from a biological family member like your well, your birth mother, and have love in your life and that be enough? And then, because, but this isn't just adoption. You know, there's a lot of children who get separated from their birth mother and then are raised by family members, you know, and or grandparents. Right, I im do know, like some adoptees who have say they have the absolute best childhood. They have no desire and no need to fill those gaps or to know those answers, because they feel completely fulfilled, blessed and loved. And...

I just I just think that every single person has their own interpretation, their own genetic makeup, their own spirit within them, with a lot of different combinations that they're there is no right and wrong, there is no rule book, there is no formula, and that those that feel they have of that gap despite having been raised maybe in a loving family, it's okay, like that's that's a valid need, and the ones that don't have that need, that's a valid feeling. But there isn't a real right or wrong, clear cut answer. I think it's just really honoring whatever your story is and it doesn't mean that anybody was faulted or that it's something wasn't done right or well enough. Hmm, let's all have that ounique need and perception and experience. Yeah, I think people need to hear that perspective. That was awesome, because it's true. We all like I don't think there's anyone out there that feels exactly the same about anything. And what's a Tryad? No, and it's impossible because we're all living different lives. There's Sony internal and external factors different all of us, right, but being heard and validated for what your own experience is and what your own needs are is tremendous. That's what's really important, is that if you say I don't need to know more than what I know, that's okay. And for someone to say no, I feel traumatized by my experience, then you are traumatized by your experience and that's okay. You deserve to be heard, yes, or whatever, for whatever you're feeling. It's not right or wrong. It's like all is fair and love, war and adoption, and it just changes to throughout the years. I would I can't imagine what I would have been saying a podcast when I was still in the depths, but my healing and both destruction, I can imagine I would have been pretty angry. Mass exactly right, right, and I think what's important for those that feel really angry is you need to be heard and it's okay for other people that have different experiences to that. We there's none of us on any of these triads are any of these sides of the fence that are wrong or need to be enemies. Then we can all help each other, we can all be part of each other's healing. There is no there's no wrongs here. We'll just different hoots how do you look if I were dompy? Even as a birth parent, it's really hard for me to say that when adoptive parents don't welcome the openness. That is where I want to say that's wrong. I yes, I do feel that's wrong. I there's a part of me that understands it. It beer based and it's insecurity. And you know from the generation that I was adopted in, it wasn't culturally taught or Nurch cured or assured either. And and I know that you know, there was a lot of minimal and probably not very research based or good coaching that occurred. There were no classes. People took on. This is how to best care and nurture and love and water and feed your adoptive baby. It would some you know, this is how it is and this is what you should do, and this is when, how old they should be, when you tellum or and and then it's done. And mean, really wasn't you know? And that's where I guess I also have some secondhand healing. Is watching my peers, my friends, raise and discuss and...

...talk to their adopted children so differently than I was talked to is pretty amazing. HMM, and I that's a good pointy, pretty really well adjusted, beautiful adoptees and and their parents even still saying things like I need to be aware, though, that my child, as an adopted child, is going to have some insecurities, that maybe my biological children are going to have any need to have that awareness and I need to be extra sensitive to that. And I just think like really, wow, yeah, I guess you're right, like that was never afforded me, but how good, like rone that extra mile and just having that awareness is so cool. HMM. Yeah, yeah, we definitely come along the way, but there's still always to go yet and adopting well, so that's why we're not expects it's a go this way. But I feel like that was a really good conversation. HMM. Yeah, Hannah, you got any more quiet? No, I just yeah, I don't. I feel like I just sat in like my own therapy session. For second there I was like where are you, and I was a child. That would have been great. No, I love that's like the message I want to share, so I'm really glad that you're on here. Is I do want to like create a platform where people can truly be themselves, be heard and be validated absolutely. Yeah, yeah, that's what I want. It's so important, it's and it's so deserved and it's a basic need we all have and deserve, is to be heard and validated, whatever and wherever you're at. Yeah, yeah, sure, I feel this is the first time I felt very young and like look, I've always felt really mature for my age and my this like my mind said, you know, I'm like twenty four, I married, have two dogs and have a house, like who am I? And so thway was like been pretty mature, but I just felt like, you know, hearing your journey and your healing, it's like Hannah, Hannah, Hannah, you have some much to go. We'all do, I do. It's never ending, it's never true. You just keep discovering new things as you go. It's crazy H and and new hurts. I mean I have hurts, I have wounds, I have moments of not feeling strong and feeling doubts, and but you do learn to know like okay, I know where this is coming from, I know what this is, I know what I need to do about it and I'm going to honor that space and take care of it and and not personalize it so much and that's help. Well, yeah, and it's a good thing to evening to be saying on mother's Day, because I know there's a lot of birth mothers, specially that have just placed the next couple of years on mother's Day is going to be really difficult. And so I said, I said that on the story. I was like, you need to do it works for you on that day and honor it. Yes, and be gentle to yourself and and loving and forgive yourself. That's right. Forgive ourselves. It's not always easy, leas. No. No, well, I'm socially your new Hashtag. Not always easy. No, so glad we had you back on. I feel like we shave you on like once a month. Real I don't think this is the last of you. Called Myself, Hanny, to ask you all these questions that like, okay, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? Do you know where to find me? Yes, thank you very much for going back on. Do you have anything else you want to share before we serve goodbyes? No, just the very best mother's Day to everybody, birth mothers to adoptees, to anybody listening to plant. Mama's and for Baby Mama's love. You Happy Mother, Yes, thank you. Okay, to all. Thank you so...

...much for coming on. It was an honor to talk to you again kids, and this is probably not going to be the last fun no way, all, right on. Thank you for listening to our podcast. Please reach out to us at dimples and adoption at gmailcom.

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